Authentic Artistry in the Digital Age with Fletcher Michael: This Week on TALK by Turner

The latest episode of TALK by Turner takes a look at the question: how can artists remain authentic in a changeable and increasingly performative world? 

Fletcher Michael, actor and writer, joins us this week as we explore his perspective on creativity and authenticity in the digital age.

Fletcher is based in Brooklyn, New York, and is the founder of Infinite Monkey Theater Company, through which he writes, directs, and produces full-length plays and sketch comedy shows. He is the author of three novels: Vulture, Glass Bottle Season, and, most recently, Sidewalk Dance.

Buy Sidewalk Dance on Amazon, Turner Publishing, or wherever books are sold!

Listen to the latest episode of TALK by Turner on Spotify, YouTube, and Apple Podcasts.

Read the full transcript below.

Geoffrey Colon: I'm Geoffrey Colon, this is TALK by Turner. TALK by Turner dives deep into the intellectual discovery while examining what's happening in our world right here, right now. Join us each week to hear from published authors and industry experts as they share their knowledge and insights. Now let's check out who's on this week's episode. The themes on this week's show, being an artist in the 21st century, expression and authenticity. And of course, one of my favorite topics, New York City, the myth versus the reality for artists. Fletcher, welcome to TALK by Turner. 

Fletcher Michael: Thanks so much for having me. Pleasure to be here. 

GC: All right, so you're an actor and a writer and an artist. Do these two different artistic mindsets, that being an actor and a writer, does that affect each other? And if so, does writing make you a better actor or vice versa? 

FM: For sure. I think for a long time those two things were very separate in my head, but especially since I got my theater company off the ground more and more often I'm working with the same people and writing for myself, very often for the stage. And so I do end up writing quite a bit that I am intending to say myself or for people that I know very well to say. And so there's a lot of overlap between the acting and the writing. But originally I moved to New York just to sort of pursue writing more generally. I knew that the acting scene was here, and I knew that I wanted to try some playwriting. And mostly I wanted to get into playwriting because writing novels is very solitary business. It's not so much fun. 

FM: It's more of a compulsion than a passion, I think. Whereas playwriting, you get to collaborate with other people and you get to, you know, have fun with dialogue and you get to see how things look on stage and other people will be reading your work. There's much more of an instant reaction to the things that you put on stage versus hoping that somebody might pick up your book and actually read it and then actually finish it, which is an even bigger ask quite often. So it's the collaborative aspect of playwriting and acting in general that really is the difference maker for me. And, yeah, the two bleed into each other constantly. 

GC: Have you always been a creative? Like, did you know, what pushed you to pursue this field of pursuing acting and writing? 

FM: Yeah. Have I always been a creative? I don't think I would have considered myself capital C creative until I was probably in, like, my early to mid twenties. Though at that point, it did, like, upon reflection, seem like I was being primed for it my entire life. I mean, both my parents are English teachers. I grew up in houses that had plenty of books on the walls. And I was reading my entire childhood. And yeah, I would be writing things here and there, but I didn't take much of it very seriously. I never thought I could write a book or I should be a writer. I mean, how many writers do we know that can just say that is their job? Very few. 

And so it wasn't until I was, yeah, I think like, 24, I started writing down little short stories, experiences that I'd had with some friends of mine over the course of a summer. And that is sort of the impetus for how Glass Bottle Season came about. That was my second novel, but it was the first thing that I wrote, whereas I had tabled that for a little while and then went back and wrote my. What became my first novel, Vulture. Have I always been a creative? I think that in my family, things like movies, things like books, culture, media played a huge role. And it was always the topic of conversation at a dinner table. Having a wide range of reference for that kind of thing was always imperative, or you'd kind of get left behind in a dinner table conversation in my house. 

And I think that it was sort of always in the air around me. Both my parents are from Los Angeles originally, and so, you know, though they eventually moved away, they have always been movie buffs since then. And so since I was a little kid, I've been watching TV and movies that probably I was way too young for, like, I think I saw Dr. Strangelove when I was maybe, like, 12 years old. 

GC: Good movie. 

FM: Amazing movie. Still one of my favorites. 

FM: But really, it wasn't until I think that I first conceived myself as, like, potentially being, like, a writer or actor or something like that would be when I was in, like, middle school and high school. My mom was a big fan of, like, sitcoms on tv, and we'd be watching things like Will and Grace or The Office, Parks and Rec on all those shows. And I just remember her saying all the time, don't you think it'd be so much fun to be on a show like that? And I'd always agree, because it would be. And especially shows like that really put the emphasis on sort of the writer actor as somebody that holds both those roles. And that's always sort of lingered in the back of my mind. But I'm from Rhode Island. 

FM: We don't have, like, a whole lot of industry going on there as far as, you know, showbiz or the Hollywood industrial complex kind of thing. But, like, you don't know many people in Rhode island that are, like, pursuing acting. Even. So it was sort of the thing in the back of my mind. But then when I got into my early 20s, it became a more central idea and more focused in that maybe there is a way where this works, or at least works as a kind of companion to whatever life I have post college here. 

GC: So you're the founder of this company called Infinite Monkey Theater Company. What's behind that name? Just curious. 

FM: Sure. So maybe you've heard of the Infinite Monkey Theorem. It's where if you put, I don't know, something like 100 or a thousand monkeys in a room with a bunch of typewriters over the course of time, eventually they will type Hamlet or the works of Shakespeare. Different theories say different things. My dad recently told me that theory has been disproven. I was like, cool, thanks. I already started the company. Basically my idea behind it is that, like, when I'm typing something, first draft, I feel exactly like one of those monkeys must feel, just pecking at a keyboard and throwing stuff on a page. And that, to me is the spirit of writing. And I really do want this theater company to be sort of writing focused and script first. And I also like the comedic twist of it. I mean, it's a theory. 

The image of that is funny to me of 100 monkeys in a room typing on typewriters. And I like the. The Shakespeare connection to it because there you have a playwright, maybe the Playwright. And I like that it lends itself to a little bit of absurdity, which is sort of how my writing tends to lean to. And I do think that it, you know, articulates something about the unseriousness that I want to bring to writing. Not just plays, but my novels too. I think that there's a time and place for very serious. I'm a capital W writer, but I think that all creatives, especially people that call themselves creatives, should do a little bit more of taking themselves less seriously. And so that's sort of what I'm hoping to impart with a name like that. 

GC: This question is one that I've really wanted to ask you because it's a question a lot of people ask creatives or artists, and that is, how have you been able to build a sustainable life around creating art? 

FM: Yeah, yeah, we'll see how it goes. Right now, how is it sustainable? I am lucky to have a day job that is within a field that is of interest to me. Right now. I'm manager of an improv theater, which, like, where else in the world can you have such a position? You know, New York City is the only place where there's multiple improv theaters where people can have positions like this and that. That can be my day job. So I still maintain some foot in the world during the day, even though today, for example, I spent all day running payroll for a bunch of teachers and performers and producers that came through our theater in the past two weeks at least. You know, even though I'm doing spreadsheets and whatnot, I'm still in the world of the things that I love. 

But as to how sustainable it really is, it is a grind. And, you know, people do burn out because it's the sort of thing where you can always be doing more. You know, being a writer is having homework for the rest of your life. I mean, every day after work, I'm in a rehearsal or going on an audition or writing something or editing something or getting. Getting ready for a show that's about to go on. There's sort of an infinite amount of work that can be done. And so how it can be sustainable is time management. I think that the most successful people that I meet at this level are the busiest. And they're the busiest because they are able to budget their time and they know what kinds of things and projects to give their priorities to. And that's a learning curve. 

I mean, I've you know, when I first got to the city, I spent my time doing all kinds of projects that really have done nothing for me. And they're just lines on my resume now. And they're, you know, not necessarily the leg up that I might have expected. You know, who knew that I wouldn't break out from that play that I did on Staten Island? But it's a matter of learning that as you go, you know, figuring out what benefits you, what's worth your time. 

GC: Yeah, you don't know what's going to work unless you try some things, Right? 

FM: Yeah. 

GC: Some people, you know, they still have this perception, you know, that being an artist is an impractical career choice. We hear this all the time, especially when people say, I think I'm going to go major in art. Everyone's like, no, no, don't do that. You're going to be starving the rest of your life. But, you know, have you ever doubted this path that you've been on? And if so, you know what has helped squash some of those doubts? 

FM: Have I ever doubted it? Probably every day. Yes. I think that the people that call it impractical are 100 correct. It is an insane thing to pursue and to think that you can build a sustainable life around something that you're just passionate about. The only way that it works is if it. To me, in my experience, the only way that it works is if it's a compulsion of yours. It has to be your only thing. That is the only way that I've know of anybody that makes it or quote unquote, reaches the next level. I think that there's a lot of people that have a romanticized idea of what it must be like to really grind it out and move to New York, move to LA and get on the audition hustle. And that burns a lot of people out. 

There's sort of, I feel like a three year period where you get this influx of a bunch of people that want to do this thing and then eventually those people will go, those good writers will go and become marketers and do copy editing or advertising and maybe those good actors find out that they're making a lot more money bartending and so they get into hospitality. But if it really is your one thing and it's like what you feel like you were put on this earth to do, then pretty much anybody that says it's impractical isn't going to matter. There's gonna be all kinds of people telling you that this isn't gonna make for A sustainable life beyond this. 

I mean, that background gig isn't gonna do much for your 4k, but it is something that you can use when you're going for that next role. And really it's, it has to be driven by sort of a passion that borders on delusion, which is how I operate. And again, whether or not that's sustainable, you can check in with me in five years and see where I'm at. But you do have to sort of have an insane self belief because yes, you're exactly right, it is impractical. And B, there's going to be plenty of people within the industry and without the industry, whether from your family or just random strangers that you meet that are telling you what a crazy thing you're doing. How could you possibly think that you're going to make it here? 

And especially if you don't have a famous last name or some major following online, then it really has to be driven by whatever that creative pursuit of yours is or what it is that you're trying to execute and why you have this insane self belief that whatever you're doing is different and hasn't been seen before. That that's the only way I think that you can kind of stick to this grind because there's going to be so many obstacles that you really do have to have sort of a North Star of your own just to make it through. 

GC: So you would say, I mean being an artist, it's. It's a pretty deep personal choice to pursue, you know this field well. 

FM: Yeah, I think so. 

GC: I mean if it's not a typical 9 to 5, which it isn't because you could be up at all hours and doing work seven days a week. But how do you separate work life from personal life? Being an artist? Just curious how you attack that. 

FM: Yeah, you're probably asking the wrong person. I think that the two blend for me quite often, especially if you're in a place like New York or Los Angeles where it is very expensive to live here. Here you're going to be a creative on top of whatever your full time job is just to pay your rent. And so I think as to how they interact, sort of the question is sort of the personal life versus the 9 to 5, like separation between work and life, right? Yeah, I don't think that they're. Well, in my experience there has been no separation. I am constantly writing down things in my notes app whenever they strike me. 

If I want to like take a break from the creative pursuit, then I really have to be conscious about turning my brain off and I have to be like, okay, we're in this movie and even if I have a good idea for a sketch when we're in this movie theater, I'm not going to pull out my phone and write it down because I have to consciously shut that down right now. 

I think if you're pursuing it as manically as I have been, then it can be really hard to separate those two things. And the goal is to blend it so that you are working your career and your passion at the same time. And getting there requires that you do that in your life in general, just so that you are able to squeeze everything in a day. So again, yeah, probably asking the wrong person. I think that there's a lot of people that have a way, healthier way about going about it than I do, but I have not discovered that yet. 

GC: So correct me if I'm wrong. You don't have a big social media presence, which you just noted is sort of important in. In the creative field. So, yeah, why not? Why have you decided to sort of not pursue social. 

FM: Yeah, it was never something I did personally. And so it has always remained sort of a nebulous, unfamiliar expanse to me, whatever social media is. I have one now for my theater company that I maintain with the help of my sister. And, you know, it doesn't surprise me that we haven't cracked through. We only have close to like 300 followers, I think, and even that is like, overwhelming to me. But of course I know that it's something that would be incredibly beneficial probably to really lean into. And that does seem to be where the industry is going. There's more and more often I see casting calls that are like, must have X amount of followers. 

And that, you know, kind of bifurcates things for me because on the one hand, yes, if this is where the industry is going, then probably that's where I should go to. But on the other hand, what kind of person are they looking for with a casting call like that? Because my belief has always been, and deluded it may be, but that if you put up the best work that you can, the eyes will find it. Whereas I think that a lot of people now are trying to reverse engineer quality work from the eyeballs. So they see, you know, 115,000 followers and they think, oh, well, this person must be doing something right and it has nothing to do with algorithms or whatever happens on social media. 

Whereas I think that there's so much high quality work that's going unnoticed Just because there's so many people that are spending their time working on their project rather than building social media following. And I think I follow more into that camp probably. 

GC: It's almost like it's infected a lot of creative fields because like writing a book is similar. I wrote a book 10 years ago and they were. That was right on the edge of asking that question that you had just noted. How many followers do you have? Now that's a given when it comes to almost any creative field, whether you're trying out for a role, you want to write a book, you want to do anything that's artistic. They're just curious on, you know, how many followers you have. So which leads to this next question. Do you feel that social media has impacted artistic expression? That we're really chasing more of someone who's a good marketer of their work rather than doing good? 

FM: Yeah, I think there's probably two. So two sides to this coin. On the one hand, yes, there's a lot of people that get an inflated following from or get an inflated sense of interest from the powers that be in whether it's Hollywood or writing, what have you. Publishers that are seeing a lot of followers and equating that with talent. And then we end up with very low quality publications or very low quality acting or performances and the platforming of people that have not done the work to get where they are. Sure, that happens. On the other hand, there's something really democratizing and sort of meritocratic about how social media operates. I mean, there are people like, you know, go back to Andy Sandberg and like Lonely island and they're hanging out, putting together these silly videos and throwing up on YouTube. 

They get a following that, you know, they're miles from the industry, but then they are in front of executives that can, you know, put them on snl, give them a show or a movie or something like that. So that there is that side of it too where it's like, yeah, this is a, you know, it is within people's control now to put out their own work and market their own work. But unfortunately that also means that there's also just people to skip that step and go for the followers and then hope that the work comes after that, which is happening more and more. 

GC: Would you say modern day artists, you know, like yourself, face different challenges now than a couple of decades ago? Let's just put the, let's just say if you're an artist coming up in the. And you're an artist coming up today, what are Some of those challenges. And if, you know, looking at those challenges, does it impact the overall art that's being created? 

FM: Yeah, it's kind of funny. I mean, say we're in the 90s is like grunge music, punk rock coming out. And like, selling out is seen as sort of the. The worst thing you can possibly do. 

You know, there are days where I feel like I would have thrived in an era like that, because now we're in a time where it's like selling out is sort of the goal. 

You know, because now if you're an influencer, say, a job that did not exist in the 90s, you can kind of make your own way. Yeah, sure, you got famous selling band aids on TikTok, but now you have enough of a following that maybe you pop up in a Tarantino movie. That's like where we're at in society, I guess. Whereas in the 90s, that person would have been ridiculed and nobody really wanted to be that person that wasn't seen as cool. And, you know. Yes, I think my brand of self promotion would have been more functional in the 90s in that I love putting up a paper flyer. And I think that word of mouth is a really cool way to spread the word about some live show that I'm putting up. 

You know, the Chimp Cocktail is a sketch show that I produce through my theater company. We do a monthly show and we've built an organic following and we've been able to sell out 10 shows, and that's led to an Off Broadway residency at the Players Theater. And that I'm proud of the fact that happened organically like that. And so I think that now, though, that would be seen as a completely absurd way to go about trying to put up a show in New York City and try to attract a following, which it is. It's been really hard. That is sort of how people operate now. And so trying to navigate social media now and, you know, there's. 

There's Hollywood stars and then there's sort of a giant middle ground of people that are notable online, whether you've heard of them or not, they have these followings. And trying to, you know, be the daylight that breaks through that fog is incredibly difficult now. It's so saturated now in a way that wasn't in, say, the 90s, that part is more difficult, for sure. 

GC: It's almost like a layer of middle management that is like, okay, we're going to act as the gatekeepers for what's cool. But what warms my heart for what you're saying is that you want to speak truth to power a little bit more than, you know, what happens with most artists, which is, no, I don't want to speak truth to power. I just sort of want to sell out. Is that. Am I right in saying that, you know, you're more guided by, hey, I want to do cool things, rather than I just want to make a quick buck? 

FM: Definitely. I. I don't know if I would necessarily classify myself as speaking truth to power, but I do think that I'm not looking to pander to anybody. And, you know, listen, if somebody wants to come through with a giant paycheck, I will consider it. That is my financial situation at the moment. But as far as, like, what my goal would be in how I operate, I do think that, you know, quality work speaks for itself. And I would like to believe that if you are building something or working on a project that is attracting eyeballs organically, then you have a worthwhile product on your hands, and you don't need some other enterprise to come in and tell you that it's a good product. Yeah. 

GC: So, you know, do you have advice for artists who are listening or watching this, who are struggling to navigate the pressures of the modern world while still staying true to their work? 

FM: My advice for a person in that situation, which is very similar to my situation, I think would believe in yourself radically. I think that there is a time for taking the advice of other people or pivoting or looking for a different option. But if you really think that, say, the play you're working on or the novel you're working on is worthwhile and the way you're telling this particular story is worth your time to tell it right, and to not change it, then believe the fact that other people are going to believe that too. You know, you're more. More and more often I'll put something on stage, especially things with comedy like I do. 

FM: I put up a lot of sketch comedy, and you get that instant Richter scale from an audience because if they laugh, then they're laughing at the same thing you're laughing at, which means you're aligned with something that's going on beyond yourself. And so if you have that sensibility and you feel like, no, I'm tapping into something here, believe in that. It's easy to take that marketing job, and it's easy to go on TikTok or go on Instagram and speak direct to camera and be yourself. As an identity or as a product, it's more difficult to stay true to your vision. And like I said, it's not going to be every project that you feel that. It's not every project that I feel that. 

But there are certain things where I'm writing or I'm performing, and I think I'm not willing to take notes on this. This is all me. And, yeah, I trust that this is going to get in the right in front of the right people. So follow that sense would be my advice. 

GC: Nice. How'd you end up in New York? Just curious. 

FM: Sure. Well, how did I end up in New York? I first moved here in 2018 when my partner Julie and I had just gotten back from teaching English in Taiwan for a year. And after that, her brother was living here. We'd visited and were just like, all right, what's the next radical experience we can have? And New York was it because we want to get back to the States, but we didn't really have any jobs pulling us back or anything. And we thought, hey, New York's pretty cool. So we showed up here. Then we both went off to grad school. I came back in 2022. Is that right? Yeah. And I came back the second time around because I wanted to be a playwright. 

And if you're looking to get into theater business, there's one city for you, and it's called New York. And it's through that I ended up getting pulled into acting and sketch comedy and improv and all that. But also it's New York, and you grow up watching it on TV and in movies and reading about it in books. It's. It's a siren song for sure. 

GC: Oh, yeah. Your most recent novel, Sidewalk Dance, it's a coming of age story about a struggling writer and artist that. That happens to actually take place in New York City. So in what ways did you pull from your own experience as an artist living there to create the character, the lead character, whose name is Fish? 

FM: Yes. So Fish is essentially my greatest fear in that it's somebody who is looking to be a playwright in New York, but they're 100% deluded. And I'll cop to being like 50% deluded, but I think that fish is 100% diluted. Fish is looking to capture sort of the trappings of what it is to be a playwright or derelict artist in New York City based on things that he's seen in books or movies. And so he is growing out of his hair and getting drunk and experimenting with drugs and running around the city thinking that he can reverse engineer an artistic career out of an artistic lifestyle. To that end, though, New York is central to the novel and to the character. Just because you've lived in New York, it's full of posers. There's posers on every corner everywhere. 

Yeah, yeah, there's a, there's so many people I know that would call themselves creatives. That is an umbrella term that has been sort of co opted and being in New York sort of gives you license to do that because a, if you dress a certain way, it's going to believable and if you live in Bushwick, people are going to say, oh sure, probably. But it also allows to create characters like Fish who can just blend into the background like that. They can be seen on the subway. If they're writing in a notebook, maybe we assume they're a writer. And if they're wearing like a trench coat or a pea coat or something and smoking hand rolled cigarettes, then they're probably an artist. Maybe they don't work in an office, you know. 

And so yeah, the social fabric and how that plays itself out in New York in the present day even makes it very appealing for Fish and also very easy for him to slide right in there. 

GC: Love it. Fletcher, where can listeners, viewers find you on? 

FM: Yeah, so I maintain a website with my personal projects. Whether it's shows that are going up or writing pieces that are coming out, novels coming out. And that'll be www.fletcherisuptosomething.com we've also got infinitemonkeytheaterco.com that's theater company's website. And stay tuned on our Instagram account, which is up and running though, like I mentioned, about 300 followers. So you can be get into the ground floor there if you'd like. And we will be taking our sketch comedy show off Broadway starting on May 1st, if you want to get tickets for that. And we'll be taking Chimp Cocktail, the sketch show to the Edinburgh Fringe Festival this summer, August 1st and 2nd and 3rd, if there are any people that might happen to be there in August. But yeah, Instagram is probably the best way to keep in touch with what I'm doing. Infinite Monkey Theater Company on Instagram. Yeah. 

GC: All right. FM. He is the author of the books Sidewalk Dance and Glass Bottle Season. Fletcher, thanks for joining us on this episode of TALK by Turner. 

FM: Thank you so much for having me. It's been a pleasure. 

TALK by Turner, hosted by Geoffrey Colon. TALK examines our ever changing cultural landscape, distilling the biggest topics of the day into 30 minutes of thought-provoking discussion. Watch and listen wherever you enjoy podcasts.