How to Become an Authentic Leader with Byrd Baggett: This Week on TALK by Turner

This week on TALK by Turner, we're joined by professional speaker and leadership development consultant Byrd Baggett. In this conversation, Byrd discusses the qualities that make a successful leader, how to develop your personal leadership skills, and analyzes current leadership in our modern world.

Byrd Baggett has been helping organizations develop authentic leaders and passionately engaged teams since 1990. He is the creator of the True Growth™ brand that has served more than 3,000 governmental, civilian, and military leaders. Byrd is also a Certified Speaking Professional, the highest earned designation presented by the National Speakers Association. He’s the author of multiple books on the topics of sales, customer service, leadership, and motivation, including Dare to Lead and The Past Doesn't Have a Future, But You Do.

Read the full transcript below, and buy Byrd's books wherever books are sold!

Dare to Lead on Amazon and Turner Bookstore⁠

The Past Doesn't Have a Future, But You Do on Amazon⁠⁠

The Past Doesn't Have a Future, But You Do on Turner Bookstore

Geoffrey Colon: This week on TALK by Turner, we're diving into leadership, current leadership trends in our evolving world, political leadership qualities on a national and global scale, and personal leadership advice for people looking to improve their skills and succeed in their daily lives. I'm your host, Geoffrey Colon, and you're listening to TALK by Turner. TALK by Turner dives deep into intellectual discovery while examining what's happening in our world right here, right now.

Join us each week to hear from industry experts and published authors as they share their knowledge and insight on today's most important topics. Now let's see who's on this week's episode. This week on TALK by Turner, we're joined by Byrd Baggett, author, professional speaker, and leadership development consultant.

His corporate experience includes sales and management careers with two Fortune 500 companies. He's a certified speaking professional, the highest earned designation presented by the National Speakers Association. His books provide insight into how to be a good leader, from tips for marketing yourself in the business world to how to leverage enthusiasm and concern for others on the path to success. Welcome Byrd to TALK by Turner. 

Byrd Baggett: Thanks, Geoff. It's good to be with you.

GC: Hey, so to start, what is one thing that you hope listeners will gain from the conversation that we're going to have today? 

BB: Geoff, my goal is for people to understand how to embrace the transformational power of authenticity to improve themselves and the lives they touch. I just feel we don't have enough authentic leaders in our society today. Authentic leaders are purpose-focused, values-grounded, and behaviors-driven. And I've been teaching and facilitating and writing books on that subject for over 30 years. 

GC: Well, it's exciting because I think authenticity, we hear the word a lot, like you said, doesn't seem to be practiced too much in leadership. So I'm excited to dive deep with you on a number of those questions. So, in a recently conducted poll that Gallup had done, they found that four attributes followers most identify with positive leadership are the following: hope, trust, compassion, and stability, with hope coming out on top, accounting for 56% of all attributes tied to positive leaders. So my question to you, is this consistent with what you've observed in your professional experience?

BB: Geoff, I'll say a resounding yes. We started, my business partner is a retired three-star general, and we started a company called True Growth Leadership in 2007 to help develop authentic leaders. And so we've served over 16,000 leaders since then. So we have a lot of data working with people. And I smile when you ask that question because they're two most important responsibilities of a leader that we found.

There are more, but these are the top of the list, and the Gallup survey reinforced it. Define reality, which is the truth, and keep hope alive. And my business partner, Lawson Magruder, retired three-star general, talked about stability. I asked him, had a very successful career in the Army, I asked him, Lawson, what was your key to success? Obviously, he was technically competent, Geoff, but his answer is another word for stability. His answer was calmness. Yes. Staying centered during the fray. Yes. You know, Geoff, back to hope, I heard this years ago, and it's stuck in my soul.  You can live 40 days without food, four days without water, but only four seconds without hope. Isn't it true? I mean, you and I talked briefly, but coming on air, that if you don't have hope, you have nothing. And again, as you know, I've written several books on leadership.

I'm known for original quotes and acronyms, that's just my gift based on real life. People always ask me, what's your favorite quote on leadership? Out of the four books on leadership, I've been blessed to write, and Geoff, here it is. It'll never change.

If you don't love people, you'll never lead them. 

GC:  Yes. Yes. Wow. That, you know, so Byrd, I've never heard that quote before, but I 100% agree with it. You have to really love people in order to lead, because you have to understand them, what motivates them. It's fascinating. 

BB: You just gave me goosebumps. You know, there's a great book, you probably read it, but I'm a voracious reader. I always want to, you know, validate my thoughts, my beliefs, my philosophy, but you probably read the book, As a Man Thinketh by James Allen. 

GC: Yes. 

BB: Right thought is mastery, self-control is strength, calmness is power. Stability, right? 

BB: It's funny that you said the word stability, because that's what we constantly hear in professional scenarios, even non-professional scenarios, where people will say, oh, we have one person on the team that is constantly providing calmness and stability, and it gets everyone else to rally around that and feel calm and dedicated as well, whether it's professional sports, whether it's business environments, whether it's politics, that is one trait I constantly feel you need on a team. So I love hearing that from you. I think it's awesome.

BB: Yeah, because as you know, Geoff, I'm an eternal optimist, but a realist, we have a whole lot of noise out there. Yeah. You know, real lions don't need to roar. And yeah, but hey, listen, I'm God's laboratory rat. I can smell an ego from a mile away, because mine used to really stink. So yeah, and so yeah, so I totally agree with that survey. And, you know, I heard years ago, I was a closing keynote speaker in Las Vegas years ago in a large audience. Unbeknownst to me, there was a futurist that spoke right before me. I don't remember his name, but I remember what he said, Geoff, because some people listening to this all say, Geoff, Byrd, that's touchy feely stuff, compassion, hope.

But here's what he said, a futurist. And he said, what's most important can't be measured. You either give hope or you don't. You either love people or you don't. Right?

GC: Love it. So that leads me to my next question, which is really around you have all these attributes, but you also have a lot of change in leadership style going on out there. So what changes in leadership styles have you personally observed that, you know, is in response to a lot of changing societal norms? 

BB: Geoff, that's a great question. And we have three children. They're all millennials. And our two daughters are professionals. So, you know, I get to work with them, ask them questions. They get tired of me asking them questions. But as far as the leadership child, the changes I've noticed that work: more seasoned leaders like myself (I'm a baby boomer, 75) have had to become more collaborative in leading others.

Because, you know, my younger days, like military command and control. You know, I'm the boss. I've got a title. But we were all humans before we were titled. And people want to be treated with dignity and respect. I call it the Ph.D. of leadership: “preserve human dignity.” And how you do that? People want to feel valued, secure, and appreciated. And what we found, I found working – God, I've been blessed. The teams I've worked with from mom-and-pop companies to billion dollar company that I'm working with now.

I've been working with them over 20 years, by the way. I tell them, aren't you getting tired of me? But I've observed there are four values of high-performing teams, Geoff. And here they are: Trust. Open and honest communication. Respect. And the Achilles tendon of too many organizations, they don't have number four, accountability. Trust. Open and honest communication. Respect. And accountability. And again, it's just more collaborative, right? Ask the questions. And you said, what's Stephen Covey's 7 Habits [Highly Effective People] number five? Seek first to understand. And how do you understand people? You said, get to know them on a deep level. 

GC: You got to get to know what gets people to tick. So in the entertainment industry, you have writers rooms, you have creatives and creators. When I worked in that environment, I always used to go around the office just to hang out with people. And everyone's like, why are you wasting time? And I'm like, I'm not wasting time. I'm finding out what motivates people, what gets them to tick, what they like to do. Because that ultimately goes back to your point here, Byrd, which is you understand people. If you understand people, you can motivate them a lot better. 

BB: Well, you know, Geoff, something that will never change, and you just reinforced it, is relationships. Building deep, that's how you do it. You don't do it sitting in your office and sending a text or email. I call email e-jail. You know, I mean, and again, you know, younger leaders are looking for more humanity and humility. And more work-life balance, right? You know, I used to, you know, “whoever works the latest,” you know, I look back on my life, and I used to work all these hours when I was in corporate America, worked for two Fortune 500 companies. You know, I was busy a lot, Geoff, but I wasn't effective. And you know what's interesting? You're familiar with David Brooks, right? 

GC: Yep. Oh, yeah. 

BB: Well, this is interesting. He's got a great podcast on YouTube video called World on Fire. Have you seen it? 

GC: I have. Yes.

BB: This links into what you're talking about. We've got a global spiritual, relational, and moral crisis. Our society is in deep need of a secure spiritual foundation and hope, i.e., relationships. 

GC: Yes. Leaders that lead by the heart and the mind, but lead by the heart and the mind more than just sort of like by the hammer.

BB: Let me tell the six names of my spiritual board of directors from the heart. Are you ready? Yes. They're all deceased. Jesus (and I'm not proselytizing), Mother Teresa, Martin Luther King, Jr., Abe Lincoln, Billy Graham, and Saint Francis. Did you know Mother Teresa had a business card? 

GC: I did not know that. 

BB: A friend of mine had an audience with her, Brad Harshus, shortly before she passed away. She gave him six business cards, Geoff. He gave me one. Listen to the words on our business card. And I share this with people when I'm speaking. I said, if Mother Teresa had a business card with leadership wisdom, you think we ought to listen? Listen. The fruit of silence is prayer. The fruit of prayer is faith. The fruit of faith is love. The fruit of love is service. The fruit of service is peace. And you said something a while ago so true, they're heart-driven. Authentic leadership is inside out if you don't know what your purpose is and your core values. And most people don't.

GC: Yeah. And it sort of lends to where I want to ask you next, which is you have authentic leadership. You have sort of this need for, you know, leading from the heart.

But at the same time, we sort of have this technological movement that's happening throughout the world and throughout business. So, you know, how do you think this rapid advancement of technologies, specifically artificial intelligence and automation, how is that impacting leaders across different sectors, both positively and negatively? 

BB: Wow. How much time you got for this? You got about an hour? I will tell you what to say about the technological revolution. It's good to share information. But when it comes to leadership, you know, the digital Babylon out there, you know, that people are busy, not effective. Some people, that's how they choose to lead. You know, hey, I sent you that text. I sent you that email. Why didn't you call? Don't get me wrong. I've got all the technology. But this is what leadership is all about. It's what you said earlier. Why do you get up and walk around the office? 

Yesterday, my wife asked me, how do you meet all these people? I was at a Walmart and I was going back to my car and I met a young man, 26 years old, from Ethiopia. He moved here when he was two. We started talking about this. And you know what he told me, Geoff? Now he's 26. He said, Byrd, I don't have deep conversations with my friends. They want to be short bursts of social media. And he's majoring in neurosciences, you know. And he said, that's like dopamine. You get those quick fixes. And so when you start having deep conversations, your brain is telling you, this is not real. You know who Thomas Merton was? And you, of course, know Dietrich Bonhoeffer, right? Yes. Listen to this about technology. 

You know, Thomas Merton, the monk who I study, read him every day, he died in 1968. Listen to what he said about technology. “Technology and science are now responsible to no power and submit to no control other than their own. Needless to say, the demands of ethics no longer have any meaning if they come in conflict with those autonomous powers. Technology has its own ethic of expediency and efficiency. What can be done differently, efficiently, must be done in the most efficient way.”

And then Bonhoeffer said this: “The demand for absolute liberty brings men to the depths of slavery. The master of the machine becomes its slave. The machine becomes the enemy of man. The creator turns against his creator in a strange reenactment of the fall.” Now, is that providential? 

GC: What I think is wild about it is it's from 60 years ago, but it's describing now. Like the vision of that is impressive when you read that. 

BB: Well, you know, I do some personal coaching and mentoring, and I always tell people, I said, hey, I can't change you. People are going to watch this, listen to this. I can't change anybody. But I share, as long as you're coachable and willing to change. And I coached a young man, and there's a book called The Happiness Advantage written by Shawn Achor, and he talks about the two keys to happiness: strong social connections and gratitude. And Geoff, you know, most people, especially men, they have a lot of acquaintances but not a lot of friends. So anyway, I got the technology, but that's not how you build deep relationships. 

GC: Yeah. So you bring up a good point there because they're lacking the number one aspect. They have no social bonds. They have no social relationships. I think I read something that a number of men over the age of 40 don't even have one close friend. Think about that for a second, Byrd. Like, not one close friend. And the interesting thing is as you age, your circle of influence, well, it shrinks, not necessarily by design, but you sort of figure out, okay, here's the people I like hanging out with. And that, I think, scares me when I hear people who say, well, I don't have a circle of influence at all. It's like, well, they have no room to go from five to two. They're already at zero in terms of their relationships. I think, you know, we have to figure out how to solve for that. 

BB: Geoff, you make a key point. The worst disease is loneliness. And you know, you've studied it. We live in a society with the highest standard of living in the history of the world with the lowest quality of life. Depression, suicide, loneliness. Most men don't have a friend. And I'm real blessed that I have been a part of a men's personal board of directors, which I recommend. There are six of us, Geoff, and we've been together since 2007. We have a one-hour phone call and an annual retreat. We talk deep stuff. Those guys would do anything. And we're very vulnerable. And, you know, men have a tough time being vulnerable. Real men don't cry. We just rush from the inside out, right? And I'm going to share something with you, Geoff, if it ties into this. I think you probably checked the website. I love Mother Nature. The True Growth metaphor is a 300-year-old oak tree on the Guadalupe River. And what I'm getting ready to tell you that all came from me sitting under her, there are four seasons of growth. And we have an assessment around these, by the way, and I'll tell you an interesting statistic. It won't surprise you. There are four seasons. All of us are in one of the four. The first is a season of self. That's the oak tree with no roots. The second season, which you'll get into if you're a season of self, is a season of drought. That's when you realize, man, my way's not working. As hard as it is, I've got to let go. I've got to seek the truth, which is the water. That's when the taproot searches for the truth. That's when true growth really starts. The next season is a season of new growth. When you start growing those new behaviors, it's a spring of life, right? You discover what your core values are. The taproots found the water, and you really believe the importance of seeking the truth. And then the fourth season is a season of significance. That's mystic oak, 300 years old. It's got these deep roots. It's got her taproots in the water. It knows what her core values are. It knows what her purpose is, by the way, Geoff, to grow and to give back. And there are acorns underneath mystic oak giving back.

So it's interesting. The 16,000 people we've worked with, guess where the majority of people find themselves? Season of self, drought, new growth, or significance? You guess where the majority find themselves? 

GC: Drought? I don't know. 

BB: Geoff, it's amazing. And these are successful people, 16,000 of them. Between self and between drought and new growth, very few people, not even 3%, find themselves in seasons of significance. And you know what the dirt is around mystic oak? Relationships.

GC: Yeah. So do you try to figure out how to, you know, motivate people to get to that sort of later stage? 

BB: Well, what we help them, we have a very unique experience. I can say this objectively. People that have gone through it say it's the most, the immersion of self-awareness, best leader development experience of their careers. And that's not me just saying it. That's the feedback. We help them discover their five core values and their purpose. Because if you don't know what your core values, how can you be well grounded down to earth? 

GC: That's right. Got to know yourself first, what you stand for.

BB: And Geoff, I went through this in 2007. Do the math. I'm 75 now. And I discovered my purpose. Literally, it has changed my life. When I get up in the morning, I say, reflect on it. And when I go to bed at night, did I do it? And my purpose is as simple as this: Live a life that inspires hope in others. 

GC: Simple yet impactful mission statement.

BB: We have people today, 20 years later, that we give, they have a true growth pocket card. We have the purpose values and the behaviors that bring the values to life. Geoff, when we meet them, they'll say, hey, I have this in my wallet or my purse. So, that's how you live a life of significance. That you can withstand the inevitable storms of life. Because as you know, too many people, especially men, our identity is external. And that can be taken away. And you've, your previous job.

GC: You're speaking to my heart here, Byrd. Because that is, you know, so many people define themselves by what they do. A job title or here's the industry that I work in. And then you wake up one day and it's like, you don't have that job title. And you're not maybe working for that company anymore. And I could see why some people, you know, they're sort of hopeless and they feel lost. And I think you're bringing up a good point. If you're grounded, if you know what you stand for, nobody can really take that away from you. You can go from job to job, but you can say, hey, that doesn't define me. I know who I am. So, I think that's something we need more of.

BB: Geoff, you just described authenticity. Yes. You know, let me tell you my story.

And I don't want people to feel sorry for me. And you've heard this before. A friend of mine is an organizational psychologist and a behavioral psychologist. And he said this to me years ago: Most people don't change until the pain of remaining the same exceeds the pain of change. And let me tell you my story. At the age of 40, Geoff, support what you just said about identities. I was asked to resign from a “comfortable executive job.” My identity. I was 40. I went home and loaded a shotgun and put it in my mouth. And that's scary. My identity was external. And you know what saved me? My wife's faith. We'll be married 52 years this year. My wife's faith has always been solid. Just quiet, solid. She's always known who she was and at peace with who she is.

And I started crying, Geoff. And, you know, real men don't cry, right? I cry at the grand opening of a Walmart now, by the way. But I just started crying. I said, I reached out. I said, God, I don't know what Jeannie has, but I need it. And that was the start of the change. Because somebody asked me, people hear my story today and they say, Byrd, we can't believe it used to be that way. I was in a season of self. That was drought. 

But I was asked, I was coaching a full colonel. We did work with the Army for nine years. And he asked me a question. He said, Byrd, when did you finally get it? And I said, well, I'm still getting it. But my answer was and is when I realized it wasn't about me.

GC: That's right. That's right. It's not about your ego. Once you can, yes. Once you can sort of let that go, I feel like you have a higher purpose. 

BB: Look at you. Yeah. You know what my acronym for ego is? “Edging growth out.”

GC: I got to write these things down. I love all these acronyms and quotes. 

BB: Yeah. Well, you know what? And we're leading to maybe we get ahead of myself. Well, I will. You have a question, I think, later about. And I'll just plant the seed right now. Something that's missing in leaders today, with rare exceptions, is humility. The word humility comes from the Greek word hummus. That means dirt. Some of us need our dirt tilled so that water, the truth, can get down to the roots. And that's why I want people in my life to tell me what I need to hear, not necessarily what I want to hear. 

GC: And what you're mentioning there is a very hard exercise to get to. Because most of us are very bad when it comes to feedback. But when you get to that higher level, as you're noting, you almost want people around you to tell you, Hey, think of us in a car together. We're all driving somewhere. You're in the passenger seat. You might have others who are in the backseat. If you are driving off close to a cliff or about to drive off the edge, you would want someone in that car to tell you, Hey, listen, I think you're getting too close to there and you might end up driving us off the cliff. You want to hear from people telling you things that are uncomfortable at times. 

BB: My friend, you get it. I've written a book called Can You Trust Me? And just that question, but again, the truth. Seek it, speak it, expect it, respect it, and live it. And yeah, truth is reality. Your example, going off a cliff. Well, let's just go off a cliff. And my mama used to tell me, my mother had an eighth grade education with a Ph.D. in life. And the older I get, the smarter she gets. She said, “Son, show me your friends, I'll show you your future.” And you're so right. And a lot of us, and I see it as a problem in our society, is confirmation bias. We want people to tell us what we want to hear. And that's danger in the comfort zone. You're either green and growing or ripe and rotting.

And when you're not literally seeking, speaking, expecting, respecting, and living the truth like you're saying, you're not going to grow. 

GC: You're not going to grow. Which leads me to my next question, a pivot away from technology and one more into current events. Speaking of growth, looking at your experience as a public speaker, a leadership consultant, do you have an analysis of the current situation we're in right now in terms of political leadership? 

BB: I'm smiling because my wife, for this interview, she said you better be careful. Geoff, I've never been politically correct, okay? I never. You know, I was a registered Republican. Now I'm a realist. I'll just say that. I look at four virtues of the most effective leaders that I gauge everything on. I've got to plant the seed, okay? And here they are. Integrity of character, passion for what they do, compassion for those they serve, and humility. Now, and by the way, the truth is black and white, not red or blue. Yep. And Abe Lincoln, I love what Abe Lincoln, he's one of my mentors, right? Stand by a man when he's right, part from him when he's wrong. So to answer your question. I mean, this is a major problem, and I don't see the situation getting better in the short term. With rare exceptions, hubris has replaced humility.

And we had too much PGA, I call it power, greed, arrogance. Power is “I want to control,” greed is “I want it all,” arrogance is “I know it all.” And you're getting ready to laugh, I wrote, I got so tired of, there's a great book called How the Mighty Fall, written by Jim Collins. You know, his great bestseller was Good to Great, but one of his best books, I think, is How the Mighty Fall. Five signs of How the Mighty Fall: You know what the first one is? Hubris born of success, outrageous arrogance that brings suffering upon the innocent. Are we seeing it?

So, in 2009, when, now I'm older, remember Enron, go back, WorldCom, Bernie Ebbers at WorldCom, we lost $50,000 in savings because Bernie Ebbers at WorldCom, same as Bernie Madoff, then Enron, Arthur Anderson, right? And guess who suffered? Those hardworking people lost their retirements. But here's the hubris pledge of allegiance. You ready? “I pledge allegiance to the dollar of the United States of America and to the power for which it stands, one nation under man, with greed and arrogance for all.” Geoff, is that not true? 

GC: Yes. Yeah. It's almost like we've forgotten the larger meaning of what life is and we're trying to almost chase this, constantly chasing growth at any cost, which is leading to bad decisions. Yeah.

BB: Well, and you get it. You know, history, is the judge, right? Of how these people will be judged. You know, Gallup does a world's most admired survey every year. You know the person that was on it the most when he was alive? Billy Graham. 

GC: Interesting. I could see that. Yep. 

BB: Humility. But you know what Billy Graham said? When you lose your wealth, you lose nothing. When you lose your health, you lose something. When you lose your character, you lose everything. Those people that you and I respect, talked about them, Martin Luther King Jr., Mother Teresa, Gandhi, St. Francis of Assisi. It's all humility, right? It was never about them. Where have all the servant leaders gone? 

GC: That's a question I ask every single day. Yeah. You don't find them in many organizations. 

BB: Let me ask you a question. I think, I've talked with a good friend of mine that was a retired command sergeant major at the highest level. He's like a brother to me. And man, he is one of the most well-read, objective, unbiased. (We all are biased people) but he’s one of the most unbiased that I've ever met though. And we were just talking about the lack of humility. 

GC: I think what you're getting at is the need for integrity again, that we have to have standards or we have to have values again, which again leads to my next question, which is trying to sort of solve for some of these things. Gallup also did a poll last year in 2024 that a record high, 80% of US adults believe Americans are greatly divided when it comes to values, what the most important values are. Now, obviously we don't have to talk about how we're in a pretty divisive world. I think most of our viewers and listeners know that as well, but how do we solve this? What are strategies leaders can employ to foster more of a collaborative culture? 

BB: Well, and you know, it's interesting. You just said something that you or I, when we work for corporate America, we would be terminated if we weren't people of integrity, right? If we violated consistently, if we weren't people of integrity, we would be asked to leave, right? 

GC: Yeah, because you lose trust within an organization. If they find that you're, I don't know, I'm just using this like doctoring files. They're going to be like, listen, we can't trust you. You're gone. Or, you know, if you're, if you're including people in a text message that shouldn't be included, you'd be gone. Yeah. Yeah.

BB: If you make racist comments and I mean. Yes, I've got a client that I've done work with the one I shared with you earlier for 20 years, they're an $8 billion company. I love them, but listen to this. Let's know what their purpose is. This is a public company. You know what their purpose is to honor God in all we do. Wow. But listen to their core, listen to their core values. And I know for a fact that they live them. And if employees don't live them, you know, they no longer with the firm: accountability, consistency, courage, conviction, discipline, honesty, and integrity, humility, morality, optimism, respectfulness, supportiveness. That company is very, very successful because they live those core values, Geoff. And they held everybody in accountable from the most senior to the most junior. Cause you know, if you don't have equity and accountability, you lose trust, right? 

So why do we tolerate this behavior in Washington? That's where my head's spinning sometimes. 

GC: What's your answer to that question that you're asking yourself? Why do we tolerate that, Byrd? 

BB: I think we're settling for mediocrity. We, uh, we have double standards. Let me just, it's interesting. You said that what David Brooks, World on Fire, I look for this, uh, privatization of morality is when everyone is set adrift. Each of us comes up with our own moral values. Well, you know, I know this violates my values, member, integrative character, compassion, humility, but you know, that's okay. Yeah. What does the Bible say? Just gain the world, gain the world, lost your soul. 

You know, in my book, Dare to Lead, there is this. Integrity is a choice. It is consistently choosing the purity of truth over popularity. Self-justification is the beginning of self destruction. Geoff, I was raised, I'm sure you were, there were certain values. For example, ethics. You did the right thing. My daddy was a true gentleman, but he said, “Son, there are two places I've been there. I couldn't get you because you won't like it. The police station or the principal's office. And we were adrift because this whole rationalization, you know, it's, it's relative. No. And I just go back and this is the question I ask of people. Remember I said earlier, truth, seek it, speak it, expect it, respect it, and live it. And Geoff, I really believe this. When the truth no longer matters, democracy no longer exists. 

Let me tell you, can I tell you a personal story? This is the introduction of my book, Can You Trust Me? Simple Insights How to Live and Lead with Integrity. Listen to the story. I'll just tell you, I told you earlier, I've been living, I'll be married 52 years this year. My wife's already been married 27. She raised me for the first 25. I'll just tell you, we were married in 1973. And the story I'm going to tell you occurred in 1974. This is the introduction. I wasn't a good husband. Okay. But I was popular, successful, all all-American at Texas. But my mother, I was the only son, the pride and joy, going off to college, you know, all of them. And my wife and my dad and our two children were young. Then they were out on the lake in Austin. And mom and I were sitting under an oak tree. And Geoff, she knew I wasn't a good husband. And she started questioning about my integrity. You know what I told her? I said, “Mama, I'm a good person.

They can just get off, get off my conscience, right?” Yeah. She said, “Son, there are a lot of good people in hell.” Remember that quote earlier, the truth may sometimes hurt, but it'll always help. Yeah. The softest pill was a clear conscience, Dr. Norman Vincent Peale said that. That's when you don't when you compromise your values. 

GC: You know, my next question actually is a swing away from some of the seriousness that we've been talking about in the show. And it's really more of how do you look at people when you judge them, giving like a good speech or talking to others in public? And the reason I ask this is it almost goes back to our earlier question around technology and artificial intelligence. I'm finding it interesting to see people who can actually stand in front of others and publicly speak. That wasn't really something that we well, that was something people aspired to for a really long time. You mentioned Abraham Lincoln. And I think we've had that throughout history. But there's probably in the last 20 years of like a falling off or dropping off there where we didn't we haven't had really a lot of good public speakers. So I'm just curious, you know, as this rises again, where people are put in front of cameras or audiences and having to sort of defend themselves or give public speeches, what makes a good one? 

BB: Are you talking about just a public speaker, period? 

GC: Yeah, like, you know, if I was to say to you, hey, I'm going to give a speech next month, what are some good qualities that you look at in terms of a good public speech? 

BB: Well, I'm going to go back to that word authenticity, be yourself, because if you're not people, you're not going to engage people. Tell the truth. You know, I learned my living for years being a professional speaker. And I'm a storyteller. And I just have a gift of bringing points to life telling stories. But be real. And the ability to engage people's emotions, Geoff, you know, connect with their head and their heart. And again, if you're trying to fake it, people can people can sense that. And but just be reality and don't compromise your integrity. Don't try to please other people. Just be yourself. And lift people up. Heroes build up, cowards beat up. Back to what we said earlier, people are looking for hope. And, you know, we don't see many smiles anymore. And, you know, people tell me, Byrd, you always make me feel good. You always challenge the way I think. But then you leave me feeling good about myself and wanting to go out there. And, you know, and it doesn't matter what we have or what we accomplish in life, Geoff, it's who we have beside us that will remember. Just make people feel good. And really to chat. My thing is, if I don't challenge the way people think, I've not done my job. Yes. If I don't get people out of their comfort zone.

GC: Right. Yeah. You're not you're not doing your you're not doing your job if you don't get people if you don't jog people sort of out of their stupor. Hey, to add on question to that: You're talking about authenticity, but how important is like personality in all of this? 

BB: Um, you know, are you talking about this, the podcast and all or just just in general? 

GC: Yeah, just in general, let's say this in the business world, how important is personality? I mean, we, you know, it has that become important again, in terms of navigating charisma. 

BB: Are you talking about charisma? Yeah, yeah. No. As long as people are real, and they're not hiding behind a personality. Does that make sense? 

GC: Yes. So they're not putting up like they're not wearing a mask. They're their true self. They're showing themselves. The personality coming across is, hey, when I speak to that person, that's them in front of others. That's also them behind closed doors. That's the real deal.

BB: Well, you know, it's interesting. When I was on the speaking circuit, I shared the platform with a lot of celebrities. Okay. And the greatest competent people ever paid me. And I had a very blessed career, and this surprised me, but you know what they would tell me? Byrd, you're the same person off the stage as you are on the stage. Hmm. And I'm not smart enough, Geoff, I'm not smart enough to, hey, what did I say then, right? You know, to cover my tracks. So yeah, but interpersonal skill is very important. You know, I just love people. I love people. I'm curious. I want to know.

You know what? I want to know your story, Geoff. Now I'm a speaker, but I have on my little pad, speak less, learn more. I want to know about your story, the power of your story. Like that young man, 26 years old, I met yesterday from Ethiopia. He told me a story. And guess what? When you are genuinely interested in other people, what does that tell them? 

GC: Well, that tells them that you're invested in them. They probably feel good. Like you noted being around someone like that.

BB: Yeah. Cause if you really let some know, you really care about it. That's right.

Yeah. I do some volunteer work with a nonprofit here in Nashville, take young men out of the court system, out of jail and put some in a program that helps them give them hope, jobs. There are nine young men that we work with that I've met. I'm there go twice a week. Uh, they're African-Americans, black gentlemen. Let me tell you what I've learned more to listen to their stories and how blessed I am. These are smart young men. They want hope. They want opportunity, but I got to know their stories. If I go in and start pontificating and talking about my, and they're all different skin color than mine and they've learned not to trust white men. So it takes time for me to earn their trust, right? I’m genuinely interested in their stories. I get emotional cause, I get home, tell my wife there, but by the grace of God, I'm not any better than them. If you don't love people, you'll never lead them. 

GC: What are the top three pieces of advice you would, uh, you know, you would give someone who wants to become a leader for others or in their own life? 

BB: Be authentic. You got to know what your core values are. You got to know what your purpose is. And by the way, here's the question on how you develop your purpose. I want to be remembered as the person “who…?” When you're gone, what do you want people that you love the most to say about you? Answer that question in one sentence. Mine was live a lot that inspires hope and others. So what are your core values? The roots of determine the fruit of your life. You said earlier, it's an inside out thing, right? Got to know your purpose, your core values. That's authenticity. 

And the second seek the truth, you know, that metaphor, the water's the truth. Seek it, speak it, expect it, respect it, and live it. Now those are, those words are easy, easy said, Geoff, but how many of us live them? Yep. So seek the truth and live it and then care for others. It's an important one. And when I close speaking, I always share this. I have this on a bookmark: work hard, do your best, live the truth, trust yourself, have some fun. And most importantly, don't quit before the blessing.

GC: Love it. Byrd, where can listeners find you online? Well, I have, uh, I can leave my, uh, email address if that's okay, Geoff. Yeah, of course. It's ByrdBaggett3@gmail.com. I'm on LinkedIn, Byrd Baggett. And also I have a website, truegrowthleadership.com. I return my emails every day. And, uh, you know, I'm here to help and serve. So it's, it's been a blessing. And by the way, Geoff, I said earlier, when I work with people, they either get it or they don't get it. You get it, friend. You're an old soul. No, I, uh, it's been a blessing. I, you know, there's nothing that makes me feel better than helping somebody else.

GC: Love it. Great words to leave listeners with Byrd Baggett. Thanks for joining us this week on TALK by Turner.

BB: Thanks, Geoff. Been a blessing. Have a wonderful day.

GC: TALK by Turner hosted by Geoffrey Colon. Watch and listen now wherever you enjoy podcasts.